PMHUB-G RE: Six Sigma Certification

Hi Fort Lee Jerry,

See my comments below…..

 

From: FtLeeJerry@aol.com [mailto:FtLeeJerry@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:41 AM
To: pauldgphd@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Six Sigma Certification

 

Hello Paul,

 

Thank-you for reading my post and reaching out to me for more information. I've written my responses in red.

 

In a message dated 12/4/2009 6:36:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pauldgphd@gmail.com writes:

Hi Fort Lee,

Nope…..  Not confusing the CAPM and the PMP. You are believing PMI's marketing hype/BS. It sounded like you were confusing the two. Unlike the PMP, the CAPM is an entry-level credential. When you said, "the PMP, which was designed to be nothing more than an entry level
credential" I assumed you meant it's current purpose, not what it was originally designed to be back in 1989. I wasn't aware that if was ever different than it is today, which is a credential to certify the experience, knowledge and competence of PM professions who have been practicing the profession for several years.

[PDG] Wow Jerry, you've been reading too many of PMI's marketing brochures, I fear…. The exam has not changed appreciably other than being dumbed down. It is now substantially exactly as it was back in 1989 when I sat for it. And IMPO, is serves exactly the same purpose as it did back in 1983-84. (And I've trained 10,000+ PMP's in the past 20 years, so I think I have a pretty solid handle on what is being tested, even now)  

And how can you tell us with a straight face that ANY credential that requires 4500 hours of UNVERIFIED experience; only 35 hours of "advanced" study, which can be fulfilled by reading a book full of sample questions or listening to a 35 hour podcast; consists of 175 multiple choice exam questions, that only tests for vocabulary and a few minor formulae, and has a passing score of ~61% qualifies one to be a professional anything?

Put it this way, would you get on the next commercial aircraft if you knew the pilot had never taken off or landed a plane successfully, and you found out he got his pilot's license after listening to a podcast for 35 hours, then taking a 175 question, multiple choice exam and passed it with a score of 62%?  No, I didn't think so……  So why would you entrust your next project to someone who fulfilled the same requirements?

Lastly, there is not one, but two credible, independent published researches, one by Bill Zwerman and Janet Thomas, funded in part by PMI, and published in 2004, and my own PhD dissertation, published in 2007, and both concluded exactly the same thing- project management is NOT a profession and most likely never will become one.

Back in 1983-84, when the PMP first came into being, the purpose of the exam was to ensure that people coming from functional areas had a sufficient understanding of the terminology and concepts to be able to be assigned to project teams and not be lost……. Nothing more, nothing less. This is new to me. Where did you read this or who told you this? I'd like to know more about the history of PMI's credentialing process and how it changed from 1989 to today. If what you were told is true, then the PMP credential sure went through a lot of changes over the years. Where can I learn more?

[PDG] Talk to some of the old timers. I got this from Harvey Levine and Max Wideman. But as noted above, the exam HASN'T changed very much.  I am using as my benchmark exam the same questions I used for my first PMP Prep course, offered through the University of Alaska, Anchorage, back in 1990 or so…..   The ONLY changes I made to those questions is the relatively minor wordsmithing changes and additions/deletions PMI makes to the processes each time the PMBOK Guide gets revised.  And as noted above, I've trained about 10,000 people to take the PMP Exam so I feel I have a pretty solid handle on what is, and what is NOT in the exam, at least in terms of topics….

And at least since 1989, when I got my PMP, (#740) neither the exam or the body of knowledge has changed in any significant way. Actually this is not true at all. For an academic I'm surprised that you haven't kept up with the field or the literature.

[PDG] Hmmm…..  Interesting that I am so out of touch, given I teach and consult and still do project management where my own money is on the line funding projects….  (the academic stuff is new…..  Prior to that, I was a general contractor (built some high end houses in Smoke Rise and Franklin Lakes NJ) and for the past 20 years have been doing training, consulting and our own investment property management. Maybe you need to look beyond PMI's writings and seek out others…..  Peter Morris, who certainly is well recognized and respected, characterized Project Management as  a "discipline stuck in a 1960's time warp"… (And I was involved with his research, which you can find from IPMA)

(Other than being dumbed down from 320 questions over 7 hours/5 possible answers/required score of 70% on each knowledge area down to 200 questions over 4 hours/4 possible answers/required score of 70% overall; down to 175 questions over 4 hours/4 possible answers/required score of 61% overall to pass.       Sorry folks, you are being, IMPO, scammed…  I humbly thank-you for your opinion. However, in according to both my professional and expert knowledge, I know that I'm not being scammed. Remember, unlike you, I've kept up with the field and the literature. Also, I'm very active with the organization on both the Global and local level and meet with folks from both the credentialing and standards groups (tho they are two, very different groups). 

[PDG] Guess you don't know much about me, Fort Lee….. <VBG>  Tell you what, get your AACE certifications and then get one of the Competency based credentials from IPMA or asapm in the USA or from INCOSE and THEN put your own retirement funds and/or house on the line to get a performance bond so you can build a school or some other major project and THEN come back to me and lecture me about what I know and what I don't know…..

The CAPM only came into existence about 2000 or so, and was intended to indoctrinate people who had just graduated from High School or University but had not yet been able to build up the required 4500/7500 hours.  Not true.

[PDG] ????  And what do you believe or understand "truth" to be then?

It was (and remains) a largely meaningless credential, designed to be another source of revenue for PMI. All organizations need a source of revenue or they can't operate. This goes for both for-profit and not-for-profit organizations.

[PDG] Hmmmm…..  Yes, I agree 100% that professional organizations need a source of revenue….. But 100 million dollars??? (Check out PMI's last P&L and Balance sheet…)  I also belong to the American Society of Civil Engineers, which is a well established, highly respected, 150 year old professional organization and they only have 5 million in assets……  Don't you have just a few questions about what any LEGITIMATE, 501(c)(3) , tax exempt professional organization is doing with 100 million dollars in mostly liquid assets?  If not, maybe you should?

In fact, the CAPM credential was not designed as a revenue producing product (tho they do have to charge for it, the same as my local bookstore has to charge me for bringing home books). The certification was designed as a project-oriented certification for entry-level PMs, team members and graduate students. It was not intended to indoctrinate anyone. As an academic you should challenge whoever it was who told you that and ask them what their source is for that misinformation.

[PDG] If PMI is nothing else, it is an INCREDIBLE marketing machine……   And I stick by my statement that PMI uses the CAPM to indoctrinate young, unsuspecting high school graduates with less than 7500 hours or college graduates with less than 4500 hours of experience and put them on track to get their PMP…..  It comes from having belonged to PMI for 15 years, having formed 4 chapters, one SIG and having served in any number of elected and volunteer positions in the organization….

Also, it wasn't for someone who wasn't able to build up the required 4,500 hours of professional experience. It was designed for someone who, as yet, did not have the 4,500 hours of professional experience to qualify for the PMP. What you're saying is along the lines of saying that high school is intended to suck in people who didn't have the required 12 years of public school to qualify for college.

[PDG] I don't understand your comment above.

 

I appreciate that it's been 20 years since you've earned your PMP. You're only guilty of having 20 years between the time you earned the credential (which, according to you, has changed drastically) and today. You can't compare, what was an experimental credential, 20 years ago, to the mature credential it's become today. Also, project management was very different 20 years ago (and, yes, I was around back then, as senior manager at Citibank and at J.P. Morgan, before they gave me the (paid) time off to go to graduate school). Unlike 20 years ago, when you were doing it, it's become a profession.

 

[PDG] First, I am not "just" an academic. I am first and foremost, a practitioner, with an undergraduate degree in Civil Engineering, (1974) a Masters in Project Management from GWU )2003) and recently, my PhD in Project/Program Management (2007) But while going to school nights, I worked in the trades and eventually ran my own construction company for 25 years.  To this day, we still own and manage property as well as train and consult. (Most recently setting up a PMO for a 2.7 billion dollar High Speed Broad Band rollout)

And secondly, I wouldn't be overly proud of listing either Citibank or JP Morgan on my CV if they manage their projects like they manage their companies…..

The only thing that has changed about the exam over the past 20 years is it has been dumbed down. And I stick by that statement.

There's no denying that there are some real blockheads and ignoramuses in any profession and line work. The project management profession is no different.

[PDG] I will send you my dissertation and let you refute my research on why project management is not a profession…..

 

There are still those who think that project management is "common sense"; that all you need is strong leadership skills, a deep voice and some brain power. As I mentioned in my post, there are a lot of fake PMs who might very well have a PM title or who have actually been assigned to PM tasks even though they haven't a clue. Unfortunately, too many have cheated their way into getting their PMP eligibility letters and, thanks to a week of "boot camp" cramming, were able to squeeze a score just above the pass grade and, if not earn, at least grab a PMP certificate.  This is especially true of folks in the I.T. sector. These folk

s are "cert" crazy. Unlike professional credentials like CPA or PMP, these I.T. certs only require showing up for some exam and passing it. They PMP is the same.

[PDG] Finally we agree on something!!! (Well, up until the point where you equate the PMP to the CPA……  GIMME a BREAK!!!)  Surely you jest?

 

Anyway, it's been my pleasure to clear up some of these misconceptions for you. PM professionals commit to lifelong learning and the blogs you and I post on are excellent tools for that. Look, already you know more today than you did two days ago when you first posted your comments.

[PDG] Wow, Fort Lee Jerry…….  I just don't know how to thank you!!!  Obviously I have been in a stupor for the past 20 years…..  Thanks for waking me up….. 

 

I might suggest that you take a look at some of the peer-reviewed journals out there, such as The Project Management Journal or The Academy of Management Journal. The articles in these publications are peer-reviewed for research methodology and strict empiricism. Some of these articles will not only clear up your misinformation that you've been hearing from other people about PMI and their credentials (and standards), but they also provide the rigorous research and data collection methodology as well as the validity of their conclusions (construct, external, statistical, content, etc.).

[PDG] FLJ, do you happen to know the RANKING of these journals?  Might be something you want to look into before running out and citing them…..

 

Did you take a look at my blog post on professional vs. I.T. certs? What did you think of it? You didn't give me any feedback on it. Does that mean that you liked it?  I hope so.

[PDG] No, but I will be sure to do so…….  And I honestly hope that it allows for posting comments……

 

In case you're one of those fellow who is able to agree or disagree with something without reading it (sort of like Fox News Channel viewers) and didn't read it, here's the link again.

[PDG] BINGO!!!  I sort of position myself as the "Bill O'Reilly" of project management……  The No Spin Zone where it pertains to project management- hence my outspoken position that PMI is nothing more than a 20 million dollar per year business, conveniently masquerading as a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization and their PMP is nothing more than an entry level credential, which is exactly what it was designed to be, and IMPO, serves that purpose quite well.  But then, what could I possibly know……???

 

http://blogs.pmbestpractices.com/2009/12/how-is-the-pmp-certification-different-from-i-t-certs/

Thanks, once again, for reading my post on the Six Sigma thread and for reaching out to me for more information. Don't hesitate to write if you need any more questions answers.

[PDG] Will do, Jerry……  And thanks again for your enlightening advice…….. Keep the faith……. 

Jerry Bucknoff, PMP, MBA,  IS.D, S.T.U.

 

BR,

Dr. PDG, Jakarta

http://www.getpmcertified.com

http://www.build-project-manager-competency.com  

 

From: FtLeeJerry@aol.com [mailto:FtLeeJerry@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:20 AM
To: PMHub@yahoogroups.com
Cc: pauldgphd@gmail.com
Subject: Re:Six Sigma Certification

 

 

Re: "the PMP, which was designed to be nothing more than an entry level
credential."

 

 I think you are confusing the CAPM certification with the PMP credential. PMP is not an entry level credential. Just like the CPA and other professional credentials, there are certain experience requirements that must be met. (Six Sigma Black Belt also has some experience requirements, though it is more of a practitioner credential than a professional credential.)

 

 The PMP credential is not intended to help a person move into a PM role. It's intended to certify that a person already IS a project manager, has been for several years, and can prove competency via a psychometric instrument designed to measure his/her competency.

 

 The CAPM, on the other hand, is just an exam on the PMBOK Guide. Nothing else.  That's plenty, but not enough to prove competency. Unlike the PMP, any competency or prior experience is not required.

 

 It's true that the PMP credential is losing some credibility. Much of this is due to the fact that a lot of people (particularly in the I.T. sector) are lying about their experience and qualifications and (with the help of a few friends who verify their lies) somehow slip through the cracks and get admitted to the exam portion of the credential. These are, indeed, entry-level PMs who should have been looking at the CAPM, not the PMP.

 

 While the PMP credential is competency based, the PgMP is even more so. In addition to the exam, you must pass through 2 additional tiers: (1) Approval from a panel of program management SMEs before you can even sit for the exam portion; (2) A 12-person multi-rater assessment (MRA) composed of supervisors, peers, direct reports and other references. In addition to the 4 years / 6,000 hours of documented experience, you have to be able to show the successful management of at least 2 programs.

 

See:

http://blogs.pmbestpractices.com/2009/12/how-is-the-pmp-certification-different-from-i-t-certs/